wat na CHAPTER 11?

surfrules· 11 jan 2006

VOLGENDE STAP · ANTWOORDWat gebeurt er met de Amerikaanse luchtvaartmarkt en banenkansen als grote maatschappijen als Northwest en Delta onder Chapter 11 omvallen?Het antwoord uit de kennisbank, met bronnen

CHAPTER 11:

Northwest en delta vallen nu zins een aantal maandtjes onder chapter 11 ivm financiele problemen. Ik neem aan dat, als de problemen niet opgelost worden, de airlines het einde van hun bestaan te gemoet gaan zien ...

Als de twee grootheden in de US "bust" gaan, hoe gaat de luchtvaartmarkt er dan uitzien in de US? Kwa banenmarkt en dergelijke...

Volgens mij zal het er dan voor een buitestaander (Wij als nederlanders) er dan niet makkelijker op worden om daar dan nog een degelijke flightjob te kunnen bemachtigen (niet dat dat vandaag de dag al erg EASY is,..!) omdat er dan een behoorlijke golf vliegers op straat komt te staan...!

Wat jullie?

Cheers

6 reacties

676$· 11 jan 2006

Ik heb er zelf erggggggggggggg veel belang bij dat Northwest blijft bestaan...

Mocht NWA over de kop rollen zal het gat worden opgevult door LCC's. En zullen er dus ook meer kisten/piloten nodig zijn bij die LCC's.

Maar daar gaat jaren en jaren overheen, en moet je eerlijk zeggen (kool-aid) dat ik NWA over een paar jaar wel weer in de zwarte cijfers zie zitten. Of UAL het ook zal overleven durf ik niet te zeggen..

US Air heeft een slimme zet gedaan door met America West te mergen, al verbaasd het me nogsteeds dat America West daar wat in zag zitten....

Man, ik durf amper te voorspellen waar we over een maand staan met de airlines hier, laatstaan over een paar jaar.

Regards,
FD

76-er· 11 jan 2006

Zelf denk ik dat NW en DL wel blijven bestaan. De laatste twee Chapter 7's (liquidation) van major airlines in de VS waren Eastern en PanAm, beide ten tijde van hun ondergang nog maar een schaduw van wat ze eerst waren. PanAm ging ten onder aan een gebrek aan nationaal netwerk, Eastern werd leeggezogen door Frank Lorenzo (remember him, Boom?). Simpel gezegd.

Er lijkt in deze nieuwe wereld van LoCo's nog altijd plek over te zijn voor echte hub-carriers, zolang ze hun kosten maar onder controle kunnen houden. En goed in een alliantie passen.

PitchDisconnect· 12 jan 2006

Wat blijft kopieren toch makkelijk, zo snel en schaamteloos....

Dit heb ik van de week op lvn gelezen,

Northwest krijgt zes maanden extra tijd om te reorganiseren

11-01-2006

MINNEAPOLIS - Northwest Airlines krijgt zes maanden extra de tijd om financieel orde op zake te stellen. De Amerikaanse maatschappij had om meer tijd gevraagd om een goed reorganisatieplan op te stellen. De deadline lag aanvankelijk op 13 januari, maar nu heeft de KLM-partner tot 13 juli de tijd.

Northwest Airlines verkeert, net als United en Delta, in Chapter 11 bescherming. Dit houdt in dat de maatschappij mag proberen om alles financieel op de rails te krijgen, zonder dat crediteuren geld vorderen. Northwest probeert om 2,5 miljard dollar te besparen door onder meer arbeidscontracten en leasecontracten open te breken en te heronderhandelen.

@FD, ik hoop voor je dat ze het halen!

surfrules· 13 jan 2006

Northwest krijgt zes maanden extra tijd om te reorganiseren

Vind 6maande, in eens erbij, nog al veel. als je toch al een deadline heb gekregen...

Volgens mij zijn ze hier in NL niet zo soepeltjes...

cheeers

metrodriver· 15 jan 2006

DL en NWA zullen het wel overleven, al geef ik DL de kleinste kans. De reden van uitstel voor NWA is de enorme economische impact van een chapter 7. Beide maatschappijen gingen chapter 11 een dag of wat voordat er een niewe -11 wet van kracht ging die het een stuk moeilijker ging maken om er voor te filen.

Independence Air (ex ACA) is van de week wel gestopt met vliegen. Afgelopen jaar zijn Trans Meridian Airlines en Southeast airlines ook op de fles gegaan

676$· 17 jan 2006

I posted this on the ALPA website, thougt id copy paste it right here as well....

"Airlines' current leverage against pilots is not all that different than the "dot-com" bubble or the so called housing bubble in that it's bound to burst. They are sticking it to us while they can. Sticking while the sticking is good, if you will. When the P and L turns to black for them and their competition, they'll have the favor returned as our bubble starts to build. "

Unfortunately, the industry is not just in a low part of its normal cycle. The entire industry is fundamentally changing, primarily due to both the advent of the code share, and our own improved safety record.

Unions once upon a time had figured out how to guard all their flying through scope. If management wanted the job done cheaper, they either negotiated with their own pilots, or they had to start a brand new airline from scratch. In an age when airplanes routinely fell out of the sky with extremely costly consequences, it was in management's best financial interest to attract and retain the most experienced pilots possible. So they negotiated the best rates they could to attract and keep the best pilots possible.

Majors piloting jobs became very desireable, and the industry paywise became very lopsided as pilots were willing to work for peanuts at entry level timebuilding jobs, with the promise of big riches down the road. A perfect pyramid scheme was building.

Fast forward to today's environment. The majors have figured out that they could incrementally increase outsourcing through the use of the code share. They started farming out as much flying as possible to pilots willing to work for peanuts, right under ALPA's nose. Unfortunately, the DRASTICALLY improved safety record of the past two decades means that they no longer have to court the best of the best anymore...modern automated cockpits mean that just about anyone with a couple years experience can keep an airplane out of a smoking hole in the ground. So there's no longer any incentive on management's part to keep increasing pay.

On the pilot's side of the equation, pilots still keep signing up to fly for peanuts, because they believe it's just a normal market cycle dip, and the pot of gold will eventually be waiting for them once they have their 1000 121 pic, and the industry picks up again. The problem is, that pot of gold is getting smaller and smaller, and fewer and fewer pilots are able to reach it!

Basically, it's capitalism at work. The market always finds a way to reach an equilibrium, and we see that at work here. Much as we pilots want that major airline pay to stay up in the stratosphere, major airline pilots have routinely made the list of overpaid professions when considering normal suppy and demand forces, and the market is finally balancing itself. The problem is, new pilots at the regional level and below should be starting to see higher compensation levels but aren't, precisely because of the above mentality.

Many pilots still believe things will return to the way they were, and are willing to "just take a lowball job offer at MESA or whereever, for the quick upgrade and on to that major job, or ...just take a paycut to get the new planes on the property so I can get my quick upgrade, etc." But there is no major job to go to anymore. There may be some form of major job in the future, but it won't look anything like it used to. It will only be marginally better than top regional positions. So we all need to get used to the new market, and be ready to stand up and say, "my time and knowledge and skills are worth a minimum of $xxx, and I won't work for any less." I think once this mentality starts changing, regional compensation will finally reach some sort of equilibrium at a living wage.

To my dear MESA brothers and sisters out there: Don't steal our freaking flying out of MSP/DTW/MEM !!!!!!!!! :grijns: tell Jo to kiss ur ass!

Rgds,
FD

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676$2006

I posted this on the ALPA website, thougt id copy paste it right here as well....

"Airlines' current leverage against pilots is not all that different than the "dot-com" bubble or the so called housing bubble in that it's bound to burst. They are sticking it to us while they can. Sticking while the sticking is good, if you will. When the P and L turns to black for them and their competition, they'll have the favor returned as our bubble starts to build. "

Unfortunately, the industry is not just in a low part of its normal cycle. The entire industry is fundamentally changing, primarily due to both the advent of the code share, and our own improved safety record.

Unions once upon a time had figured out how to guard all their flying through scope. If management wanted the job done cheaper, they either negotiated with their own pilots, or they had to start a brand new airline from scratch. In an age when airplanes routinely fell out of the sky with extremely costly consequences, it was in management's best financial interest to attract and retain the most experienced pilots possible. So they negotiated the best rates they could to attract and keep the best pilots possible.

Majors piloting jobs became very desireable, and the industry paywise became very lopsided as pilots were willing to work for peanuts at entry level timebuilding jobs, with the promise of big riches down the road. A perfect pyramid scheme was building.

Fast forward to today's environment. The majors have figured out that they could incrementally increase outsourcing through the use of the code share. They started farming out as much flying as possible to pilots willing to work for peanuts, right under ALPA's nose. Unfortunately, the DRASTICALLY improved safety record of the past two decades means that they no longer have to court the best of the best anymore...modern automated cockpits mean that just about anyone with a couple years experience can keep an airplane out of a smoking hole in the ground. So there's no longer any incentive on management's part to keep increasing pay.

On the pilot's side of the equation, pilots still keep signing up to fly for peanuts, because they believe it's just a normal market cycle dip, and the pot of gold will eventually be waiting for them once they have their 1000 121 pic, and the industry picks up again. The problem is, that pot of gold is getting smaller and smaller, and fewer and fewer pilots are able to reach it!

Basically, it's capitalism at work. The market always finds a way to reach an equilibrium, and we see that at work here. Much as we pilots want that major airline pay to stay up in the stratosphere, major airline pilots have routinely made the list of overpaid professions when considering normal suppy and demand forces, and the market is finally balancing itself. The problem is, new pilots at the regional level and below should be starting to see higher compensation levels but aren't, precisely because of the above mentality.