I am an Army of One (or 2, or 300, ...)
D-OCHO· 28 jan
I am an Army of One (or 2, or 300, ...),
from AAL_Silverbird, Cpt. Continental Airlines
I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder.
They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes.
They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.
I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on-time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn".
I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they'll find the write-up when they look in the book.
I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up.
I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.
I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort.
I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do.
I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold.
I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money….but this too may change.
I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now I collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.
I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference and disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One. My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.
When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar - I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FOs again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity - I will make them pay.
When they recall F/As for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers - I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract - a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.
My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me. Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter? I'm not looking for clauses in a contract, I'm looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again. Until then, I am an Army of One…And I'm not alone!
5 REACTIESfrom AAL_Silverbird, Cpt. Continental Airlines
I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder.
They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes.
They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.
I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on-time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn".
I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they'll find the write-up when they look in the book.
I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up.
I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.
I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort.
I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do.
I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold.
I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money….but this too may change.
I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now I collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.
I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference and disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One. My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.
When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar - I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FOs again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity - I will make them pay.
When they recall F/As for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers - I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract - a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.
My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me. Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter? I'm not looking for clauses in a contract, I'm looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again. Until then, I am an Army of One…And I'm not alone!
funflying· 28 janHaha dat is een thread van 41/2 jaar oud op Pprune
28 jan
D-OCHO· 28 jan
funflying schreef:Haha dat is een thread van 41/2 jaar oud op Pprune
Sorry, maar is de eerste keer dat ik hem zie.:eek!:
28 jan
Exit· 28 jan
Had het nog nooit gelezen: ik vind het VET!
Hij is goed pissig:grijns:
Je kan over de Amerikanen zeggen wat je wil maar gevoel voor dramatiek hebben ze trouwens wel..
Hij is goed pissig:grijns:
Je kan over de Amerikanen zeggen wat je wil maar gevoel voor dramatiek hebben ze trouwens wel..
28 jan
EHIA· 3 febJa hij heeft er aardig de zeik in.
3 feb
676$· 12 feb
Nog een mooie gevonden..
-----
An Open Letter to Fellow ALPA Pilots, January 7, 2007
It is hard to believe that May of this year will be the 22nd anniversary of the United Airline (UAL) Pilot strike of May of 1985. It seems like it was just yesterday.
I remember graduating from college and reporting to Air Force Pilot Training in November of 1972. After 6 years on active duty and 1 year in the Reserves I was able to finally get my “dream” job as a pilot with Untied Airlines. I was hired in June of 1979, as a B-737 “Flight Engineer/Door Guard”, but I didn’t care, I had a great career in aviation ahead of me. In May of 1980 I was excited to upgrade to the B-727 as a real Flight Engineer, but just 6 months later, in November of 1980, I was furloughed. After 4 years on furlough I was finally recalled in November of 1984 and once again excited to continue my career.
Then in early 1985, the Untied CEO, Dick Ferris, announced to union that he wanted to start a permanent B-scale for all the new hires at UAL. The B-scale salary would be half of the A-scale salary. The deal was we would be able to maintain our current A-scale salaries if we agreed to put all the new hires on a permanent B-scale. This meant there would be a group pilots doing the exact same job we were doing, but they would only make half of what we were making for their entire career at United Airlines. This could be up to 30 to 40 years for some pilots.
Then in April of 1985 I received a very interesting phone call from my Flight Manager who stated, “Steve, ALPA will soon be going on strike over the proposed B-scale and other issues, do not listen to the union and go on strike, I want you to stay on the property. We are going to rebid the airline and we will immediately upgrade you to a B-737 Captain position if you are loyal to the company and continue to work. If you listen to ALPA and go on strike you will loose your job and be permanently replaced and never work for this company again.” The company was going to try to break the union.
Well, what a great opportunity for me and my family. At that time we had people who had been on the property as a B-727 Flight Engineer for over 30 years before they could even upgrade to a B-737 Co-Pilot and here I was being offered a Captain position after only 6 years with the company. But the problem was I would be enhancing my career at the expense of the career of my fellow pilots. I would be moving up to a Captain seat that was vacated because I allowed and supported the termination of fellow pilots. That and imposing a B scale on the new hires just did not seem like the right thing to do.
So, I along with 95% of the pilots on the property went on strike in May of 1985, and we all risked loosing our jobs and risked not being able to support our families, because it was just the right thing to do. This group of ALPA pilots experienced solidarity, loyalty and honor in fighting for a just cause. Lifelong friendships were made standing together on the picket line. This group of pilots could not be intimidated by management and these pilots now proudly wear a “Battle Star” above their upright ALPA wings.
There was another famous group of 570 pilots that the company had previously trained as strike breakers, who much to the company’s dismay refused to go to work. They did not go to work because they realized to steal a fellow pilots job while he was on strike, was just not the right thing to do.
There was another group of pilots, only 5 %, who stayed on the property and attempted to move up at the expense of their fellow union pilots being terminated. The company found another group of pilots, called “fleet-quals”, who were willing to cross the picket line and sign a contract to work for $50,000 a year as a Co Pilot and $75,000 a year as a Captain. The company later admitted it would never have hired this substandard group of pilots through the normal interview process. This group of pilots attempted to come in the back door and take the jobs of pilots on strike that would be terminated. ALPA pilots labeled the people in both of these groups as SCABS.
On January 30, Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) Administrator, Ms. Marion Blakey, in a speech to the National Press Club, announced the FAA plans to abolish the arbitrary and discriminatory Age 60 Rule. Senator James Inhofe responded by saying, “FAA Administrator Marion Blakey’s proposal to end the Age 60 Rule is a step in the right direction. However, the harsh reality of the situation is that American pilots are already suffering under the current standards. I have spoken with Administrator Blakey and she has agreed to consider addressing the impact to pilots stuck in the middle - those who will be forced to retire at age 60 before the new rule is enacted.” United Airlines alone will terminate between 250 to 300 pilots a year for the next several years. The FAA needs to immediately start granting exemptions for pilots to fly past age 60.
I am one those pilots “stuck in the middle”. I will reach age 60 on June 5, 2007 and be forced to retire from flying for United Airlines (UAL) due to the archaic FAA Age 60 Rule. With over 35 years of experience and over 18,000 hours of flight time as a pilot in the Untied States Air Force, during the Vietnam Era and as a pilot with United Airlines, with no accidents or violations, I would like to continue my professional carrier in aviation as a B-747-400 Captain. I love to fly. I submit that my skills and experience enhance aviation safety, serve United Airlines and the serve public interest.
ALPA is opposed to a change in the Age 60 Rule and is actively lobbing against legislation that would allow fellow ALPA pilots to continue their careers and not be terminated. Isn’t it ironic that the pilots being terminated are very the pilots who supported the union, risked everything and went on strike in 1985 and did not allow a permanent B-scale for the new hires? I related this to a friend outside the Air Line Industry and he incredulously asked, “How can that be? Doesn’t your union have a Duty of Fair Representation (DFR) to all its union members regardless of age? How can ALPA have a policy that obviously supports and practices age discrimination in the work place?”
I explained that ALPA took a survey on the Age 60 Rule and 55 % of the pilots did not want to change the rule. Consequently, ALPA’s official policy is against a change in the Age 60 Rule, because the majority rules. However, the majority of pilots are younger, so now this group of younger pilots will move up more quickly at the expense of their fellow union pilots who will be terminated. Many of these younger pilots would now be on a B-scale, earning half of what they now earn, if it were not for the striking pilots, whose jobs they now actively supporting to be terminated.
My friend responded, “But this sounds a lot like the group of pilots that tried to take your job during the strike in May of 1985. What was the term you used to describe that group of pilots? This is a lack of consideration and respect for the striking pilots of May of 1985, who risked their jobs for the all the union pilots.”
It is regrettable to see my once united, proud and honorable union, ALPA, is now promoting and supporting an age discriminatory retirement policy. I propose that ALPA align its policy with the current ICAO standard and new FAA policy and actively promote and support changing the mandatory retirement age from age 60 to age 65. Let’s “FIX IT ALL NOW.”
But more importantly, I challenge ALPA to petition the FAA to immediately start granting exemptions for pilots to fly past age 60, because it is just the right thing to do.
Fraternally,
Captain Steven B. McBride
United Airlines
B-747-400 SFOFO
Loyal Member of ALPA and Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination (APAAD)
------
En een van de mooiste antwoorden daarop...
Typical baby-boomer whining.
We're going to spend the next 40 years cleaning up the mess you guys left us. I've noticed none (not one!) of the pro-age 65 guys offered the solution to just move over a seat at 60--so it's a win-win for everyone.
Nope.
I can hear Bill Clinton's voice: "Sure, there's a sacrifice. And you have to make it. Because it's fair. It's fair. It's fair to me."
Foxhunter, your generation left us with an upside-down social security, free drugs for everyone over 65, free medical care for everyone over 65--and didn't worry about paying for it.
Selfish and self-centered. I think of the hippies that "tuned out" instead of working like the next generation.
Your letter strikes of entitlement. "I deserve this". Never once do you address what anyone else deserves. Typical baby-boomer navel-gazing. "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!"
--------
Foxhunter,
I have to say, and I think I can speak for everyone on this, that we appreciate both your military service and the roller coaster you have ridden in your long career. Thank you. We sympathize.
But to the point, how can you NOT see that if this rule changes, you will be screwing thousands of pilots and THEIR families. What is it at United? How many seat changes are there with every upgrade? Four, five, six? Please try to see this. How long would that "30 years on the panel" guy have been there if it hadn't been for the Age 60 rule? 40? 50? Are you getting this? How long would your first furlough have lasted if they had changed the rule during your furlough? That's right, it would have been NINE YEARS instead of four. What would that have done to your career? You should be thanking God for the Age 60 rule, not trying to destroy it.
That would be the right thing to do, Sir.
-----------
A career that back then and NOW ends on your 60th birthday. Hmmm!!! Why did you upgrade to a full 727 FE? Was it because someone retired..
FU!! I support AGE 60 and I will never be a SCAB, you a$$hol. AGE 60 was in place when you, me and everyone else embarked on this career. Now when you are on top, you wanna change how the game is played. Sorry, GAME OVER!!!! Have a wonderful retirement....
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This is a truly sad thread. This is the reason that the unions are so messed up. Everyone is so concerned with getting what they think is owed to them that they gladly stab the person in front of them, the person that built the profession you are wanting, in the back. I hope I never have to depend on any other pilot for a hand because from reading this post they are all a bunch of spoiled, self centered, conceded children.
Age 65 is coming. Deal with it. You are not owed that place in line. They are the ones with 30 years experience and dedication. You are the freshmen on the block.
Do me a favor and read FLYING THE LINE, Tighten your Tie, Straighten your union pin, and be part of the solution. Not the problem.
I am just glad that all pilots don't think like the children on this board or we would all be making $12K a year.
----
Here's a question for you. First:
You're exactly right. With very few exceptions, I don't think anyone on here has tried to pretend that this is about anything more than money.
We all symapathize with the guys who have lost pensions, including your dad. Your father is very fortunate to have kept flying throughout all of this. If your father is SO in favor of "everybody looking out for each other", then what does he propose we do to help the guys who were furloughed while he kept flying? How does he reconcile the fact that because he'll be able to keep flying now, there will many others who'll be kept out?
See, the problem is that in order for your dad to stay, there will be at least one guy who remains furloughed and MANY others denied an improvement in their quality of life. Is that fair? I forget the exact number, but every time someone at UAL retires, there are about 5 seat changes that result.
I myself have a dog in this fight too. If this passes I won't upgrade for at least 5 more years. So my salary will be roughly HALF of what it would have been for those five years, or to put it in dollars, I'll lose about $350,000 in those five years. Let's see, any accountants out there? What is the time value of that money invested over 15 years before I turn 60? The real result, and don't let anyone kid you, is that with that kind of loss I won't have the "option" of retiring at 60, as they like to suggest, but rather I'll be FORCED to work to 70 to make up for it. Get it?
Whether your dad will admit this or not, during his long and illustrious career, he silently thanked God everytime someone senior to him retired or left the industry. Even YOU benefitted from the age 60 rule in a huge way, my friend. Remember those birthdays dad was finally able to be home for? Remember that shiny new bike he was finally able to afford when you were young? Thank the retirees ahead of your dad. Was your dad fighting to keep those guys on board then? You know he wasn't, and this industry has seen some rough times before. This is not new.
The bottom line is that the junior folk will lose FAR MORE than the senior people will gain. If it was an even trade, I might reconsider but until there is some way to resolve that, my vote is NO.
-----
Foxhunter/Capt. McBride:
As a furloughed UAL pilot (long gone for greener pastures at Fedex – thank God!), I started reading your post and was initially happy. I had seen an earlier thread dealing with scabs and their crimes and was surprised at how many here were willing to let them slide. I thought, “Oh, good, here’s a vet of the ’85 strike who may give some of these guys a different perspective. Maybe help them understand what true “low lifes” the scabs were.” Even though the UAL MEC did a much better job in the spring of ’05 edition of their publication on the 20th anniversary of the strike, I thought maybe you’d have some additional insight.
As I got toward the end, I realized where you were going with it and I was shocked. YGBSM!!
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Using some veiled quote from “a friend outside the industry” you basically call those opposed to changing the retirement age - scabs. You of all people KNOW BETTER!!
While I respect the stand you and others took in ’85, you can only ride the wave so long. You and many of the 570 I’ve flown with, sound like the high school football hero 20 years later trying to resurrect their glory days and get one more pat on the back. I’ve never been on strike but I will if necessary. It’s not like it really takes that much if you really think about the reality. Go out and walk the picket line or spend the remainder of your flying career as a pariah in a miserable existence. Not a tough choice for anyone with even a small measure of morality. You were part of a group of like-minded pilots who worked together to achieve a goal. Any fool knows it’s a lot easier to go with the crowd (especially when they’re the “good guys”) and be part of the team.
So, you were risking losing (not loosing – BTW) your job? Well, what were your choices? Once the strike vote was a “yes” – the train was rolling. You just jumped on and hoped for the best – just like most of us would do in the same situation – because, as you said, “It was the right thing to do”. You had to support your family??? Well so did all us furloughees!!! – and guess what…. We went out and found other jobs – some got flying jobs, some didn’t. We’ve all lost our flying jobs and had to support our families anyway – and for a lot longer than the ’85 strike. Just because yours was voluntary, the fact is, we’ve all jumped or were pushed off that cliff and it ain’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. So don’t whine to me or anyone else about what you were risking in the strike. I doubt you spent a second walking the picket line thinking you were doing it for “the younger pilots would now be on a B-scale, earning half of what they now”. Give me a break. Get over yourself – we don’t owe you anymore consideration and respect. . Actually your letter cost you much of the respect you had from me.
Where was your resolution on changing the retirement age in say…… 1980 when you got furloughed? That would have gotten you off furlough a lot sooner - right?? . Or how about when you were waiting to hold a line or upgrade to Captain on the "whale"? Didn't here much out of you then about changing the age to 65......hmmmm. Why was that?
You knew the retirement age when you started this gig and it’s time to pay the piper. You’ve had 27+ years to try to fix this problem you feel so strongly about. What is it now at this late date? Alimony, college for the kids, boredom? So, when are you going to quit ALPA? Relive your glory days and have a little “mini-strike” against the union who is attempting to support the MAJORITY of its members.
I’ll pass a message to you from my UAL friends still on furlough or just returning when I say: “Go play some golf, enjoy your retirement, and get the f#ck out of THEIR SEAT!!!”
---
Someday he will realize sitting in his rocking chair in the old folks home why he has no friends
-----
An Open Letter to Fellow ALPA Pilots, January 7, 2007
It is hard to believe that May of this year will be the 22nd anniversary of the United Airline (UAL) Pilot strike of May of 1985. It seems like it was just yesterday.
I remember graduating from college and reporting to Air Force Pilot Training in November of 1972. After 6 years on active duty and 1 year in the Reserves I was able to finally get my “dream” job as a pilot with Untied Airlines. I was hired in June of 1979, as a B-737 “Flight Engineer/Door Guard”, but I didn’t care, I had a great career in aviation ahead of me. In May of 1980 I was excited to upgrade to the B-727 as a real Flight Engineer, but just 6 months later, in November of 1980, I was furloughed. After 4 years on furlough I was finally recalled in November of 1984 and once again excited to continue my career.
Then in early 1985, the Untied CEO, Dick Ferris, announced to union that he wanted to start a permanent B-scale for all the new hires at UAL. The B-scale salary would be half of the A-scale salary. The deal was we would be able to maintain our current A-scale salaries if we agreed to put all the new hires on a permanent B-scale. This meant there would be a group pilots doing the exact same job we were doing, but they would only make half of what we were making for their entire career at United Airlines. This could be up to 30 to 40 years for some pilots.
Then in April of 1985 I received a very interesting phone call from my Flight Manager who stated, “Steve, ALPA will soon be going on strike over the proposed B-scale and other issues, do not listen to the union and go on strike, I want you to stay on the property. We are going to rebid the airline and we will immediately upgrade you to a B-737 Captain position if you are loyal to the company and continue to work. If you listen to ALPA and go on strike you will loose your job and be permanently replaced and never work for this company again.” The company was going to try to break the union.
Well, what a great opportunity for me and my family. At that time we had people who had been on the property as a B-727 Flight Engineer for over 30 years before they could even upgrade to a B-737 Co-Pilot and here I was being offered a Captain position after only 6 years with the company. But the problem was I would be enhancing my career at the expense of the career of my fellow pilots. I would be moving up to a Captain seat that was vacated because I allowed and supported the termination of fellow pilots. That and imposing a B scale on the new hires just did not seem like the right thing to do.
So, I along with 95% of the pilots on the property went on strike in May of 1985, and we all risked loosing our jobs and risked not being able to support our families, because it was just the right thing to do. This group of ALPA pilots experienced solidarity, loyalty and honor in fighting for a just cause. Lifelong friendships were made standing together on the picket line. This group of pilots could not be intimidated by management and these pilots now proudly wear a “Battle Star” above their upright ALPA wings.
There was another famous group of 570 pilots that the company had previously trained as strike breakers, who much to the company’s dismay refused to go to work. They did not go to work because they realized to steal a fellow pilots job while he was on strike, was just not the right thing to do.
There was another group of pilots, only 5 %, who stayed on the property and attempted to move up at the expense of their fellow union pilots being terminated. The company found another group of pilots, called “fleet-quals”, who were willing to cross the picket line and sign a contract to work for $50,000 a year as a Co Pilot and $75,000 a year as a Captain. The company later admitted it would never have hired this substandard group of pilots through the normal interview process. This group of pilots attempted to come in the back door and take the jobs of pilots on strike that would be terminated. ALPA pilots labeled the people in both of these groups as SCABS.
On January 30, Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) Administrator, Ms. Marion Blakey, in a speech to the National Press Club, announced the FAA plans to abolish the arbitrary and discriminatory Age 60 Rule. Senator James Inhofe responded by saying, “FAA Administrator Marion Blakey’s proposal to end the Age 60 Rule is a step in the right direction. However, the harsh reality of the situation is that American pilots are already suffering under the current standards. I have spoken with Administrator Blakey and she has agreed to consider addressing the impact to pilots stuck in the middle - those who will be forced to retire at age 60 before the new rule is enacted.” United Airlines alone will terminate between 250 to 300 pilots a year for the next several years. The FAA needs to immediately start granting exemptions for pilots to fly past age 60.
I am one those pilots “stuck in the middle”. I will reach age 60 on June 5, 2007 and be forced to retire from flying for United Airlines (UAL) due to the archaic FAA Age 60 Rule. With over 35 years of experience and over 18,000 hours of flight time as a pilot in the Untied States Air Force, during the Vietnam Era and as a pilot with United Airlines, with no accidents or violations, I would like to continue my professional carrier in aviation as a B-747-400 Captain. I love to fly. I submit that my skills and experience enhance aviation safety, serve United Airlines and the serve public interest.
ALPA is opposed to a change in the Age 60 Rule and is actively lobbing against legislation that would allow fellow ALPA pilots to continue their careers and not be terminated. Isn’t it ironic that the pilots being terminated are very the pilots who supported the union, risked everything and went on strike in 1985 and did not allow a permanent B-scale for the new hires? I related this to a friend outside the Air Line Industry and he incredulously asked, “How can that be? Doesn’t your union have a Duty of Fair Representation (DFR) to all its union members regardless of age? How can ALPA have a policy that obviously supports and practices age discrimination in the work place?”
I explained that ALPA took a survey on the Age 60 Rule and 55 % of the pilots did not want to change the rule. Consequently, ALPA’s official policy is against a change in the Age 60 Rule, because the majority rules. However, the majority of pilots are younger, so now this group of younger pilots will move up more quickly at the expense of their fellow union pilots who will be terminated. Many of these younger pilots would now be on a B-scale, earning half of what they now earn, if it were not for the striking pilots, whose jobs they now actively supporting to be terminated.
My friend responded, “But this sounds a lot like the group of pilots that tried to take your job during the strike in May of 1985. What was the term you used to describe that group of pilots? This is a lack of consideration and respect for the striking pilots of May of 1985, who risked their jobs for the all the union pilots.”
It is regrettable to see my once united, proud and honorable union, ALPA, is now promoting and supporting an age discriminatory retirement policy. I propose that ALPA align its policy with the current ICAO standard and new FAA policy and actively promote and support changing the mandatory retirement age from age 60 to age 65. Let’s “FIX IT ALL NOW.”
But more importantly, I challenge ALPA to petition the FAA to immediately start granting exemptions for pilots to fly past age 60, because it is just the right thing to do.
Fraternally,
Captain Steven B. McBride
United Airlines
B-747-400 SFOFO
Loyal Member of ALPA and Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination (APAAD)
------
En een van de mooiste antwoorden daarop...
Typical baby-boomer whining.
We're going to spend the next 40 years cleaning up the mess you guys left us. I've noticed none (not one!) of the pro-age 65 guys offered the solution to just move over a seat at 60--so it's a win-win for everyone.
Nope.
I can hear Bill Clinton's voice: "Sure, there's a sacrifice. And you have to make it. Because it's fair. It's fair. It's fair to me."
Foxhunter, your generation left us with an upside-down social security, free drugs for everyone over 65, free medical care for everyone over 65--and didn't worry about paying for it.
Selfish and self-centered. I think of the hippies that "tuned out" instead of working like the next generation.
Your letter strikes of entitlement. "I deserve this". Never once do you address what anyone else deserves. Typical baby-boomer navel-gazing. "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!"
--------
Foxhunter,
I have to say, and I think I can speak for everyone on this, that we appreciate both your military service and the roller coaster you have ridden in your long career. Thank you. We sympathize.
But to the point, how can you NOT see that if this rule changes, you will be screwing thousands of pilots and THEIR families. What is it at United? How many seat changes are there with every upgrade? Four, five, six? Please try to see this. How long would that "30 years on the panel" guy have been there if it hadn't been for the Age 60 rule? 40? 50? Are you getting this? How long would your first furlough have lasted if they had changed the rule during your furlough? That's right, it would have been NINE YEARS instead of four. What would that have done to your career? You should be thanking God for the Age 60 rule, not trying to destroy it.
That would be the right thing to do, Sir.
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A career that back then and NOW ends on your 60th birthday. Hmmm!!! Why did you upgrade to a full 727 FE? Was it because someone retired..
FU!! I support AGE 60 and I will never be a SCAB, you a$$hol. AGE 60 was in place when you, me and everyone else embarked on this career. Now when you are on top, you wanna change how the game is played. Sorry, GAME OVER!!!! Have a wonderful retirement....
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This is a truly sad thread. This is the reason that the unions are so messed up. Everyone is so concerned with getting what they think is owed to them that they gladly stab the person in front of them, the person that built the profession you are wanting, in the back. I hope I never have to depend on any other pilot for a hand because from reading this post they are all a bunch of spoiled, self centered, conceded children.
Age 65 is coming. Deal with it. You are not owed that place in line. They are the ones with 30 years experience and dedication. You are the freshmen on the block.
Do me a favor and read FLYING THE LINE, Tighten your Tie, Straighten your union pin, and be part of the solution. Not the problem.
I am just glad that all pilots don't think like the children on this board or we would all be making $12K a year.
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Here's a question for you. First:
You're exactly right. With very few exceptions, I don't think anyone on here has tried to pretend that this is about anything more than money.
We all symapathize with the guys who have lost pensions, including your dad. Your father is very fortunate to have kept flying throughout all of this. If your father is SO in favor of "everybody looking out for each other", then what does he propose we do to help the guys who were furloughed while he kept flying? How does he reconcile the fact that because he'll be able to keep flying now, there will many others who'll be kept out?
See, the problem is that in order for your dad to stay, there will be at least one guy who remains furloughed and MANY others denied an improvement in their quality of life. Is that fair? I forget the exact number, but every time someone at UAL retires, there are about 5 seat changes that result.
I myself have a dog in this fight too. If this passes I won't upgrade for at least 5 more years. So my salary will be roughly HALF of what it would have been for those five years, or to put it in dollars, I'll lose about $350,000 in those five years. Let's see, any accountants out there? What is the time value of that money invested over 15 years before I turn 60? The real result, and don't let anyone kid you, is that with that kind of loss I won't have the "option" of retiring at 60, as they like to suggest, but rather I'll be FORCED to work to 70 to make up for it. Get it?
Whether your dad will admit this or not, during his long and illustrious career, he silently thanked God everytime someone senior to him retired or left the industry. Even YOU benefitted from the age 60 rule in a huge way, my friend. Remember those birthdays dad was finally able to be home for? Remember that shiny new bike he was finally able to afford when you were young? Thank the retirees ahead of your dad. Was your dad fighting to keep those guys on board then? You know he wasn't, and this industry has seen some rough times before. This is not new.
The bottom line is that the junior folk will lose FAR MORE than the senior people will gain. If it was an even trade, I might reconsider but until there is some way to resolve that, my vote is NO.
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Foxhunter/Capt. McBride:
As a furloughed UAL pilot (long gone for greener pastures at Fedex – thank God!), I started reading your post and was initially happy. I had seen an earlier thread dealing with scabs and their crimes and was surprised at how many here were willing to let them slide. I thought, “Oh, good, here’s a vet of the ’85 strike who may give some of these guys a different perspective. Maybe help them understand what true “low lifes” the scabs were.” Even though the UAL MEC did a much better job in the spring of ’05 edition of their publication on the 20th anniversary of the strike, I thought maybe you’d have some additional insight.
As I got toward the end, I realized where you were going with it and I was shocked. YGBSM!!
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Using some veiled quote from “a friend outside the industry” you basically call those opposed to changing the retirement age - scabs. You of all people KNOW BETTER!!
While I respect the stand you and others took in ’85, you can only ride the wave so long. You and many of the 570 I’ve flown with, sound like the high school football hero 20 years later trying to resurrect their glory days and get one more pat on the back. I’ve never been on strike but I will if necessary. It’s not like it really takes that much if you really think about the reality. Go out and walk the picket line or spend the remainder of your flying career as a pariah in a miserable existence. Not a tough choice for anyone with even a small measure of morality. You were part of a group of like-minded pilots who worked together to achieve a goal. Any fool knows it’s a lot easier to go with the crowd (especially when they’re the “good guys”) and be part of the team.
So, you were risking losing (not loosing – BTW) your job? Well, what were your choices? Once the strike vote was a “yes” – the train was rolling. You just jumped on and hoped for the best – just like most of us would do in the same situation – because, as you said, “It was the right thing to do”. You had to support your family??? Well so did all us furloughees!!! – and guess what…. We went out and found other jobs – some got flying jobs, some didn’t. We’ve all lost our flying jobs and had to support our families anyway – and for a lot longer than the ’85 strike. Just because yours was voluntary, the fact is, we’ve all jumped or were pushed off that cliff and it ain’t as bad as you’re making it out to be. So don’t whine to me or anyone else about what you were risking in the strike. I doubt you spent a second walking the picket line thinking you were doing it for “the younger pilots would now be on a B-scale, earning half of what they now”. Give me a break. Get over yourself – we don’t owe you anymore consideration and respect. . Actually your letter cost you much of the respect you had from me.
Where was your resolution on changing the retirement age in say…… 1980 when you got furloughed? That would have gotten you off furlough a lot sooner - right?? . Or how about when you were waiting to hold a line or upgrade to Captain on the "whale"? Didn't here much out of you then about changing the age to 65......hmmmm. Why was that?
You knew the retirement age when you started this gig and it’s time to pay the piper. You’ve had 27+ years to try to fix this problem you feel so strongly about. What is it now at this late date? Alimony, college for the kids, boredom? So, when are you going to quit ALPA? Relive your glory days and have a little “mini-strike” against the union who is attempting to support the MAJORITY of its members.
I’ll pass a message to you from my UAL friends still on furlough or just returning when I say: “Go play some golf, enjoy your retirement, and get the f#ck out of THEIR SEAT!!!”
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Someday he will realize sitting in his rocking chair in the old folks home why he has no friends
12 feb